The following is a transcript of the "Chat with Dr. Cantrell" from August 12, 2009. Links to additional resources and information from the chat transcript are included to the right.
joan
Jons, do you have a question for Dr. Cantrell?
jons_ProudMom
Not really. I saw in the newsletter this a.m. that she would be the guest speaker. My son is currently in Afghanistan on his first deployment. We have rec'd word he is scheduled to return in a few months, and I am anxious.
joan
I can appreciate your anxiety.
dr._cantrell
Yes, I can imagine there are all sorts of emotions. Anxiety, uncertainty in terms of how he has changed, excitement and anticipation.
jons_ProudMom
The last word we had from him was a call to his girlfriend a few weeks ago. He usually calls one of us and then the other. There was a definite change in him in his last phone call.
dr._cantrell
Was it a change because he called his girl friend
jons_ProudMom
No. That was normal. He is really good about alternating calling us and his girl friend and I communicate reguarly. It was the way he sounded and some things he said.
dr._cantrell
Did he sound distant or how did you perceive this?
jons_ProudMom
She said he was very angry, upset, saying that the guy who left was gone and that she wouldn't like the one coming home.
dr._cantrell
Oh he is just kind of warning her. They are different when they come home and some of them are not too happy with how they have changed. This is one of the most difficult things about the reintegration. They aren't sure who they are and how they fit back in and if they really want to fit back in. It is very challenging.
jons_ProudMom
That describes the feeling she got very well. Thank you. Someone else can jump in here too. :)
dr._cantrell
I would like to speak of this a little more. It is very important for the loved ones to have as much information as possible about the difficulties they have when they come home.
dr._cantrell
We must realize that everyone is different and responds in various ways but there are many commonalities and these are related to anger, a feeling of being a lost and being around people that "just don't understand".
postal
Hi My son has been in Afghanistan since May and has been in heavy combat. I'm very concerned about him coming home. He was very bummed on a few calls then received much delayed mail and had a shower and sounded much better.
dr._cantrell
I am very impressed that he is able to communicate these concerns to his loved ones.
postal
I can always tell in his voice how he is doing more so than what he says. I know he is always saying things to ease my mind.
dr._cantrell
It is amazing what a letter or a box from home can do to get them away from some of the issues they are dealing with down range.
dr._cantrell
Hold on please, many of them tell me it is the letter that they can hold that means so much. They do not want you to worry about them, but how can you not? They want to reassure you that they will be okay.
jons_ProudMom
That is my son. He is very worried about how I am handling this.
dr._cantrell
It is very good for you to get a better handle on your emotions if you can possibly do this. It is very important that they know you are going to be okay. They do not need to worry themselves into not performing their jobs well.
postal
Dr. Are you a vet?
dr._cantrell
No I am not a veteran.
postal
Have you seen alot of this illness???
dr._cantrell
I do not call it an illness. It is very important that we don't pathologize. I have worked as a clinician for nearly 20 years working with combat veterans, I conducted my dissertation research on PTSD and Vietnam Veterans and the importance to social support in mitigating these issues.
dr._cantrell
Yes, I have worked with thousands of veterans who have PTSD, and if we start to pathologize this, then they will see themselves as damaged, and this is not healthy and does not give them hope for a better day.
postal
I don't know much about it.
dr._cantrell
I find that if we look at Combat Operational Stress and we break it down into behaviors, physiological issues, etc. this gives us a better explanation of what is going on.
dr._cantrell
Many people do not know much about PTSD because it is evolving and we are learning more all the time.
postal
Are there signs?
dr._cantrell
No need to apologize at all. I work with the troops who are coming home from war and if I can explain their behaviors as being expected and normalizing them so they don't feel alone on this journey it is very important to their well-being
postal
Is it true that sometimes it comes up several years later??
dr._cantrell
Yes, there are signs. We look at Arousal behaviors: startle response, anxiety, hypervigilance, also isolation avoidance, nightmares,sleep disturbance, anger issuse, etc.
dr._cantrell
there are many things we see that are ways they do their best to cope which certainly may not be their best interest such as alcohol, high risk behaviors, but they find that they need a way to chill out and get that adrenaline rush they miss.
dr._cantrell
The list goes on and on. Please read my books Down Range to Iraq and Back whick is the first one which will give you a great deal of understanding on this topic
proudmomintn
How common is it for Marines coming home from Afghanistan?
dr._cantrell
Once a Warrior Wired for Life, and Souls Under Siege: The Effects of Multiple Troop Deployments and How to Weather the Storm... All give the warriors and their loved ones ideas of what to expect, and they are all for sale on this website.
postal
What is the best things we should be saying on to them on phone calls???
joan
These books are all excellent. They were very helpful to our family.
dr._cantrell
This is very common, and when I speak to your Warriors, I tell them that 99.99% of them will have some challenges and behaviours which I have mentioned and they are not alone.
dr._cantrell
Thank you.
dr._cantrell
So it is very important that we help them reach out for help and to have in the wings a veteran who can be there to also support them along their journey.
dr._cantrell
I got a little wordy there, sorry.
proudmomintn
I had no idea the percentage was so high!
dr._cantrell
First off, please read my posting, I am not saying that 99.99 have a diagnosis of PTSD, I am saying that they are all going to changed by their experience!!!
pas123
Are there support groups/networks for marines back from deployment throughout the country?
dr._cantrell
See the difference? The research is saying 30% with PTSD but we must realize that they know how to answer the questions so they don't endorse the data.
postal
That is completly understandable.
pas123
I am stateside and am changed by the experience. So it is understandable that they will be too but just to what degree?
postal
I totally agree with that statement.
dr._cantrell
If we speak about PTSD and Combat Operational Stress as we did with the Vietnam veterans (which many of your family members may be) we will do a great disservice to our men and women in uniform. We must never let history repeat itself by not being able to speak of this and help them through this process. Our poor Vietnam veterans had no one to speak with, this is not the way we get through these challenges.
joan
To[Private] five25 She likes to answer one question very thoroughly then move onto the next one.
five25
To[Private]
joan
OK. My son is currently deployed - bat is attached to 2nd meb.
dr._cantrell
This is a very good point. You do not need to be deployed to the WARZONE to be changed. Many of our military are doing things stateside which are also affecting them.
postal
Are you saying we should'nt talk about it??? or just not use the PTSD in referring to problems?
five25
To[Private]
joan
Yes. His Company has experienced loss.
postal
I'm a little confused!
dr._cantrell
As to what degree depends on many factors: The level of resilience, the personality the duration, the proximity, the experiences. IT IS NOT A SIGN OF WEAKNESS.
dr._cantrell
OH NO I am saying we must talk about it.
dr._cantrell
We must not have this go underground as it did with the VN veterans.
dr._cantrell
It is necessary and very healing to talk about it, but this being said, it is very important that we honor or warriors boundaries, and the family member may not be the one to hear the story.
dr._cantrell
Story.
postal
Will his fellow marines be watching out for this when they return? And will they try to get help or are they still hiding this.
postal
Also, Do some experience this while still in combat?
dr._cantrell
Many are still hiding because of the culture, but I do know personally that all branches of service are doing their best to change these stigmas. I challenge the warriors I work with at my workshops to look out for their buddy and don't take "no I don't feel like doing ....." be proactive, and watch out for eachother.
dr._cantrell
Yes, some of them experience this in combat, but they are so pumped up on adrenaline to get through their missions that at the time they are not in a state to feel much other than the rush, and then it hits them when all settles down.
five25
I know that each individual will experience the "hit" (or not) of it all in an individual way. I wonder what I would/should do if during a visit home, I would have a concern...How to approach in a way that honors boundaries.
five25
I may not know what the boundaries are.
itsame
I guess I won't be able to.
dr._cantrell
Talk about it before they come home, have your back up available, say a veteran that you can trust to come over and take your Marine out for a cup of coffee.
dr._cantrell
Just watch and be aware, and one of the things I find that parents want to do is still parent their Marine, and get upset if they are out too late, or drinking, and not adhearing to the "rules" of the house, this can certanly be an issue for your Marine.
peggy
It is all overwhellming a bit isn't it?
postal
Oh no, I gave up on that one a while ago.
peggy
I am happy that my son is a it older than most - he is a firefighter from DC - age 27.
peggy
I hvae not babied him in a long while.
dr._cantrell
Yes, it can be overwhelming, but take good care of yourself, and again all may be well.
peggy
However, I do worry - recieved a letter this week and he feels sick.
Colorado_Country_Parents
How do we handle the drinking and no adhearing to the rules of the house? I've read that they often turn to drugs and alcohol. How do we help them?
proudmomintn
Are you saying to ignor it if they are drinking or out late? - my son is 20.
peggy
So like most mom's ---if not all mom's i worry that I cannot help.
dr._cantrell
Yes, some of them don't do so well with being doted on, because they have been places in their minds and souls that none of us can even imagine.
dr._cantrell
They are survivors and have toughened up and made it through things that we would probably fail at.
peggy
I suppose I am worried about him coming back so different
dr._cantrell
You can help as a mom, have their favorite foods, and just take it easy to not impose upon them.
sandjmom
Proudmom I don't think their cronilogoical age matters anymore. They have seen way too much.
peggy
Is it better not to ask to many questions of them.
dr._cantrell
Eventhough they are different this is certainly not all bad, it can mean that they have a new way of looking at life, and have a sense of meaning and purpose.
postal
I was so sad when I said goodbye because I knew in my heart he was never going to be the same after this deployment.
peggy
My sonwas/is a devote firefighter and has a strong sense of self - for that I am grateful.
dr._cantrell
ABSOLUTELY, don't ask questions, this for many makes them uncomfortable and then they push people away with anger. Just go with the flow, and if they want to talk they will. Give them time and space.
peggy
Good advice - thank you.
dr._cantrell
Yes, this is what I am talking about a new self is formed.
postal
Oh no! My kids call me the 20 questions MOM.
peggy
I suppose when they return they want to think about eing home - not about being "there."
dr._cantrell
Take it easy 20 questions mom, this may not fly too well with your Marine when he comes home. Play it by ear and see where he is with all of this.
peggy
I too want to ask a lot of questions of my son.
peggy
But I am leaning.
postal
Good advice! Thank you.
sandjmom
My Marine won't talk to anyone in the family except is Marine older brother and his grandfather, a decorated WWII vet.
dr._cantrell
Actually surprising: many of them think about being there, for this is where they feel at home, and they are very dedicated to their fellow Marines, and feel a need to be there to keep bad things from happening.
peggy
He is loucky to have marine famioly members.
Kevs
To[Private]
joan
I need to ask something that hapened this last week two days after HC.
postal
My marine has an old coach that is a retired marine. I am thankful for that.
dr._cantrell
Yes, indeed, this is wonderful that your Marine has the family of veterans to share his story with, this is such a gift for all of them.
peggy
I work with a woman whose son is a major ---she is a bit help to me.
Kevs
I have a question.
dr._cantrell
Please go ahead Kevs.
Kevs
My son came home last week two days after homecoming he kind of went on a major rant about all kinds of scarry things he was screaming and shouting kind of an overreaction.
Kevs
Does this constitute PTSD?
dr._cantrell
This is certainly something to be mindful of, it sounds like he is having a hard time. I would say that it would be important for him to have a veteran buddy to hang out with, and sometimes they are open to getting help and perhaps he needs some help with his sleep and anxiety levels.
Kevs
I do not know if this is possible right now as he is headed out on another deployment.
dr._cantrell
You are welcome.
postal
How can he be going out again so soon???
Kevs
After he was finished though he asked me to sit with him awhile and asked if he was wrong I tiold him no that his feelings are never wrong did I do the rightthing
dr._cantrell
Just keep communication open with him,and since he is now on another deployment this for some is good medicine. They feel that our way of looking at things here at home is so out of touch compared to where they are coming from and anger gets the best of them.
Kevs
Yes that is what it sounded like.
dr._cantrell
WOW, that is wonderful that he knows that you can be honest with him, and it probably scared him that he reacted that way when he is not a situation which warrants that level of intensity at home. Sounds like he has a parent who loves him and he knows it.
IronMike
Exactly.
ossagent
To[Private] vpm_of_josh Yes, he is able to go on convolescent leave for 2 months and he will be doing that in Alaska.
Kevs
Thank You so much for that ! I will just keep doing what I am doing then thanks.
dr._cantrell
Kevs how long was your son home before being redeployed.
IronMike
Listening was the Most Important thing that I could do for our Veteran.
Kevs
I just didn't know how to deal , I just went with my heart.
dr._cantrell
Sounds like you have the right combination for him.
Kevs
Hoping I was right.
Kevs
Thank you so much.
dr._cantrell
Listening, without asking questions is so vital. There is the saying that is why we have one mouth and two ears, so listen more and speak less.
postal
Very good saying.
IronMike
I've heard that.
Kevs
That is good can I borow that.
Kevs
I guess the boy still needs his Mama.
dr._cantrell
of course i heard it and it makes sense to me.
IronMike
For ours; it's his Dad.
dr._cantrell
Yep for sure and a mother's love is very tender and unconditional, what a blessing to have a son who reaches out and is able to step back and ask for validation.
IronMike
Just Glad to hear that He is Willing to go to One of You with his needs.
dr._cantrell
Parent's love I should say is vital, but it is a dance at times,
sa818
I have qustion, why is it tht when some Marines get deployed they come home and binge on drinking then stop and do again after another deployment
IronMike
Later, ALL; & Dr. our son is Still getting Better each month.
sandjmom
Some Marines? Don't they all?
sa818
I don't know.
IronMike
Prayers for ALL.
postal
and you too.
joan
To[Private] IronMike Bless you, Mike.
dr._cantrell
I think it runs deep. It is part of the military tradition, it is what they do to let off steam throughout their process for many but not all. It is a form of self-medication they see it as helpful with sleep, social comfort, repressing memories, and let lose. It varies for each of them.
joan
To[Private] IronMike I thought you were leaving...sending my blessings out to you.
dr._cantrell
Let me say they see it as helpful, but in fact it can certainly make things worse.
postal
But is it OK, especially if you have a family history of alcoholism????
sa818
Does it ever end!!!!
IronMike
To[Private]
joan
I am going to the main support; so that I don't interfere, here.
dr._cantrell
Yes, of course, it gets better over time, it just take patience and flexibility.
joan
To[Private] IronMike Take care...see you later.
five25
Dr. Cantrell I hope you will be a guest speaker again, soon. I feel I have learned much even in tonight's short visit. Will be working on my parenting "dance" lessons as I often tend to have 2 left feet. Thanks, for all the insights from your experience.
ossagent
To[Private]
joan
Oh sorry, i just saw this, Yes, he is an injured Marine named Adam
IronMike
To[Private]
joan
GOD BLESS You, & ALL Of Course.
dr._cantrell
Well, that question about "is it ok" is best answered by the individual, this can certainly be problematic over time.
dr._cantrell
You are most welcome, I am here every month.
Kevs
Really I never realized you were here that often.
sandjmom
My Marine gets out this Friday. I check back soon. Thanks.
dr._cantrell
Yes, I have been doing this for quite sometime, so I am grateful for this opportunity.
dr._cantrell
Your son is leaving the Marines this Friday.
sa818
My son ended up in hospital 2 years ago after deployment and was doing so good and now back in hosptial which I was shocked because I had no cluev or saw it coming had his 2nd deployment and has been honme for 9 months and getting ready to go again.
Kevs
Well we truely appreciate you.
dr._cantrell
Was he hospitalized for PTSD, I am sorry to hear that he is having a hard time, but it is great that he had a safe place to land.
dr._cantrell
Thank you and I appreciate and honor each one of you and your Marine!
ossagent
To[Private]
joan
Headed back to family.
sa818
Drinking he put himself in both times but ZI say he suffers also form ptsd I just hope they see it also.
dr._cantrell
They more than likely know this is a form of coping and look at the underlying current of emotional distress.
sa818
I feel very sad that he is carring so much on his shoulders and I am helpless.
dr._cantrell
You just continue to be there with open arms and remind him how he is loved and honored for his dedication.
postal
My son and I have had several discussions about drinking. I always tell him it is not a disease, but a weakness. Is that the wrong thing to say?
dr._cantrell
It is very difficult to feel so helpless.
sa818
I dont think its a form of weakness.
dr._cantrell
As far as telling him it is a weakness, I don't like that way of speaking of this.
dr._cantrell
Let's take a scenario for a second.
postal
This has been long before the marines.
postal
It is very much in are family. We have lost 3 lives to drinking and driving in 5 years.
sa818
So postal dont you see its a disease by this.
postal
No, I feel you make a decision to drink.
postal
I choose to be sober. We don't choose to have cancer or other terrible diseases.
sa818
I think when you have a family history of it you are more ept to drink than someone that dont have a family history of it.
postal
Very true.
dr._cantrell
There are people because of their make up that are more prone to problem with alcohol. There is a great deal of reasearch on the effects of alcohol. Some people do not have the genetic make up to break down the alcohol. They have more of a predisposition for addiction.
sa818
Cancer is not a addiction.
postal
It is also not a choice!
dr._cantrell
Best careful with the words that are used. It is not so simplistic, I don't think it is a choice, it is very multi faceted.
postal
I feel it is mind over matter. The strong survive and the weak die.
dr._cantrell
Even that Postal, gives the message that "if you don't get over this, then you are weak", they are so sensitive to how we judge.
postal
I've heard that since the day I was born.
dr._cantrell
What have you heard?
sa818
Gee postal I disagree with you, My sons father has all acholics on his side and I never considered them weak and my mom died of cancer.
postal
I will watch my words from now on like I said we spoke of this long before he went to the marines.
postal
It is my biggest fear with my son. He drinks far more than I like.
postal
I've tried telling him people do not become alcoholics in midlife it starts with the first drink. He needs to be strong and control it. Not be weak and let it control him.
proudmomintn
My family doesn't have a history of drinking and my son did not drink until he came home from Iraq, so I blame it on Iraq and I am so afraid he will continue when he comes home from Afghanistan.
dr._cantrell
Sometimes you must understand the underlying reasons for drinking for our military: 1) it is part of the culture, wanting to belong be one of the "boys" or "girls" 2) it is a means of coping that is legal and they see it as a means of dealing with repressing memories, having a moment or two of levity, they see it as a way of pushing people away, they feel they can pass out and they are resting (wrong), it gives them liquid courage etc. so they are not willing to take anti depressants, sleep me
postal
So sorry I have a negative attitude about this subject. It has been a very destructive part of our family.
dr._cantrell
No need to apologize this is a situation that has caused a lot of pain in your life, and for many others, I wish it was not something we had to deal with too. It is distructive.
dr._cantrell
Where did my message cut off?
dr._cantrell
It said my message was too long and was truncated.
joan
It gives them liquid courage etc. so they are not willing to take anti depressants, sleep me.
sa818
I undestand postal it has on my family also and it scares me I had no clue that my son was drinking this time and now he has admitted himself into hosptial and wants the help that he can get, he has been through 2 deployments and death of his father and when he drank he was not geting drunk he hid it very well
proudmomintn
Do most that drink after returning become alcoholics or generally stop drinking after a while?
dr._cantrell
Sleep meds, anxiety meds etc. It is unfortunate that they use alcohol instead of really getting what they need to work through their symptoms. Alcohol has caused a lot of trouble, and even death.
sa818
My son did not drink for 2 years.
postal
3 in my family.
postal
All very young 39, 21, 15.
dr._cantrell
It depends on the person and their resilience, genetic make up and social pressure etc.
dr._cantrell
I am so sorry for your losses Postal, this must be very painful.
postal
Cousin, nephew, neice.
tedrowak
Hello. I am new to this group - I would like to ask a question about protocol. When a topic is being discussed, such as drinking, is that the topic for the night, or can the discussion take a turn? Thanks for your replies.
postal
This subject hits very close to home.
sa818
Well I hope that they all get the help hey need and I support my son but I do feel helpless.
dr._cantrell
You can ask anything you would like to ask. We were just going on this one for a while. Please go ahead and welcome.
sa818
Ted talk no protocal.
postal
Please take a turn.
postal
Pat are you still there?
tedrowak
Thank you. Here is my question. I have a new student teacher - age 25 and two deployments. He said he was diagnosed with PTS and that as a result his wife left him this summer. A lot for a very young man, as always. He said he is feeling "better." What can I expect? What do I need to look for? We all know that student teaching is very, very stressful. How can I help him the best? Is this anything the principal or school nurse should know about? Thanks. By the way, I am also the mom o
dr._cantrell
Yes, this is very stressful, and it is something that I have been working with in terms of going to colleges and speaking with educators about their students who are military and are coming home into the classrooms
marinemomboston
So i have never come in with a guest speaker, is this just about ptsd
dr._cantrell
I would offer your student teacher some stress reducing ideas. He may be activated by some of the topics and attitudes of those who may be his same age and have never served
dr._cantrell
Tell him that if he gets triggered by someone attitude and or ideas, that is good self care to step out of the classroom and get some fresh air, let him know that it is normal to have some feelings about how the students handle their affairs, and their attitudes may be anti war and anti military, but he must step back and not take it personally
marinemomboston
My son has just deployed, but ptsd has been my biggest concern as far as when he gets home, what is the percent of marines that have this after deploy
dr._cantrell
Let him know that it is okay tocome to you if he is having some issues. give him permission to be human and have reactions but also help him keep his boundaries intact
tedrowak
Thank you. One more question, please. Will my student teacher know the difference between the stress of student teaching and his PSTD? Does it even matter or do we simply work with stress as stress?
dr._cantrell
Most of them are affected by their deployments, and I tell them all this is to be expected. The research say 30% have PTSD, but many of them know how to fill in the blanks so they are not found out! It does not mean that they are going to have a clinical diagnosis, each one is different. But if we let them know it is ok and to be expected then they are not so likely to go under ground with their feelings.
dr._cantrell
I reframe their symptoms as survival strategies that they used down range and now some of these behaviors come home with them
dr._cantrell
Stress as stress, but there can be specific situations which may set him off. I had a Marine who went back to school and he was enraged by some of the liberal attitudes of the students, and the idea "just say no and don't go", well this made him very angry, so we really had to work hard to have him read himself well and know when he was being triggered and to be very PROACTIVE to take himself out of the situation and get a bit of fresh air.
cjv
Is it possible that the stress they endure could cause them to become physically sick, like heart issues ?
dr._cantrell
PTSD or Combat Operational Stress can have very intense reactions, and they may not think before responding, so it is important to access several times during the day how he is doing. You may even just work that into your days schedule so he has an opportunity to vent and debrief, so he can start fresh with each class throughout the day
postal
Thank you for chatting Dr. Cantrell. I will heed your advice, especially the 2 ears 1 mouth. Have a good night all.
sa818
Good night also and Thank you Dr. for your input
dr._cantrell
Absolutely, when we look at stress, it is like a cancer that slowly eats at our body. We can see that with our Vietnam Veterans. They have cardiovascular disease, diabetes, headaches, etc. that is activated by stress over the long term
tedrowak
You have given me some helpful things to think about with the student teacher. Thank you for taking the time.
dr._cantrell
It is my pleasure, I hope you return next month for our next chat
dr._cantrell
Absolutely I will be here for sure.
dr._cantrell
Ted,
dr._cantrell
I have a suggestion get my books from the bookstore here and it will give you some insight and then give them to your student teacher as a gift. Open the door to support him in his dreams
tedrowak
I was just thinking the same thing.
cjv
Have a good night and thank you Dr. Cantrel
joan
Ted,
joan
This is the link to online store where you can purchase Dr. Cantrell's books: https://marineparentsinc.com/store.asp
dr._cantrell
Does anyone have any other questions
tedrowak
yes, I am here. Thanks for the link.
dr._cantrell
You might even have a discussion and have your student teacher participate in a topic that your students might enjoy about the military etc
dr._cantrell
Normalize the situation so the tension is dealt with in a good productive way
dr._cantrell
Thank you all for your questions and contributions tonight. I will see you next month, September. See you in September!
joan
Thanks, Dr. Cantrell.
dr._cantrell
You are welcome
joan
.
dr._cantrell
Will do.
